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Warning: Science and Atheists Beware

The religious are trying to brand science and atheism as religions. This is a dangerous idea and should not be taken lightly.

I've been watching a disturbing trend lately that is currently disjointed and without real direction, but if it ever finds its feet it could become a real problem. This problem is a concerted effort by some members of the religious community to try and get science in particular and atheism in general branded religions so that they can compete on "even" ground.

Now, I must admit that my own efforts to clarify my particular position on atheism have not helped. I have said and will continue to say that atheists are spiritual in that spiritualism is following a particular defining thought. That is not to say that atheists believe in ghosts, spirits or deities of any kind.

Further, I have also not helped the cause a great deal by arguing that a logical position of claiming the existence of a deity and disclaiming the existence of a deity are equally valid. While I still believe it is true, it could be misconstrued to mean that the belief in a personal, intercessory god and the disbelief in the same are also equally valid and this is simply untrue. So, to sound the warning drums and perhaps be allowed back into the fold by my atheistic brethren, let me show the signs of an effort to make science and atheism into religions, but only by the religious.

Over the last several months I've noticed time and again when the religious refer, especially to global climate change and evolution as “religions”. This may not be a concerted effort as of yet, but it could become one. The argument that has so far been successful in keeping religion out of schools and government is the separation of church and state clause in the Constitution of the United States. Yes, yes, I know, the Constitution doesn't actually mention the separation of church and state, but we all know what it means and where it is. First amendment for those of you playing at home, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”. However, if the religious can get science declared a religion, well then, boys and girls, we are well and truly screwed.

There are several web-sites out there, just type in evolution/religion, which already purport the nonsense that evolution is a religion and that Charles Darwin is the founder of that religion. Now, how can this be? Well, any sensible person can see that there is a significant difference between a systematic, methodical, reasoned approach, based on empirical evidence and a mythological approach based on a single book written over several hundred years. However, we must remember that we're not dealing with reasonable or sensible people. We're dealing with the religious and they will do whatever it takes to force their world view upon you.

And really, what else can they do? To their mind, what looks to many of us as forcing us to believe as they do, is simply them trying to do the best they can to help us. From their point of view it's like seeing your neighbor on fire. Wouldn't you do the best you could to help them? For the religious, those of us who do not believe are like that neighbor on fire. Out of caring they want to put us out and to their mind we just keep dumping more and more gasoline on the fire.

And we should also remember that most (though by no means all) of these people are rational, logical, reasonable people outside of the realm of religion. If you were to ask them to pray the lights on, they would say, rightly, that it is a ridiculous notion. These are not monsters or animals they are generally decent, caring people who most of the time are not off their rockers. But, when religion enters the picture it's like the reason centers of their brains shut down and the god shouter section takes over.

So, the solution, to their mind, is to get science and atheism declared religions. That way, everything can be on equal ground and they can get back to the job of using the state to indoctrinate the children into their particular mythology. Now, many of them would say that using the state to indoctrinate the children into the church of science and evolution is just as bad. Well, on that notion I'm just going to have to disagree. Vehemently.

Science is a way to explain the world around us in such a way that we can reliably depend on the same set of events causing the same set of outcomes. We don't have to sacrifice a chicken to Oogoo Boogoo the Sky King every time we want to drive a car just to see if we'll make it, we have “faith” in our science and technology. Now, if you read the previous sentence carefully you'll notice I used a specific word that causes those who want to turn science into a religion to have little tingles up and down their spines. I used the word faith and that word has religious connotations, so I must be talking about a religion, right? Wrong.

Evolutionary theory is the one that really gets them going. They would love nothing more than for evolution in particular to be declared a religion and just be done with it. Then they could declare a fatwa or jihad or crusade or some other religious killing spree and get it over with. Because evolutionary theory directly contradicts the Bible (in particular although the Muslims don't like it either), it must be wrong. There is even this wacky thing called Creation Science (huh?) that is used to “prove” how wrong evolution must be. The point that they're missing is that evolutionary theory, like all theories, tends to, well, evolve.

So, I'm sending out a warning to all of you out there who like the idea of technological progress. I'm sending a warning to all of you out there who like the idea of searching for the truth of things and their root causes and not counting on the vagaries of Oogoo Boogoo. I'm sending this warning because I can see the blood in their eye and it scares me. Bad. Hmm, I wonder where a guy can find a chicken at this hour of night?

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Comments (19)
#1 by Tony, Dec 6, 2007
Brandon Krumm is proof that even an idiot can sound legitimate. So hateful and disrespectful of others' RIGHT to practice their faith, that he would write such a fanciful and perverse piece of trash.

Kumm, (more apropriately - cum) Please, put your thoughts where the sun doesn't shine on that waste of flesh you call your "body".
#2 by Brandon, Dec 6, 2007
Ah, Tony, I do so enjoy your tone in this debate.

You didn't even read the article, did you? Come on, be honest. I have no problem with you practicing your faith. You certainly have that right. But, that isn't even the subject of the essay. The point of it, because apparently you didn't read it, is that some religious people would like to make science and atheism religions because it will even the playing field.

Sorry, but science and atheism are not religions and that, my friend, is that.

Have a great day!!
#3 by Robert, Dec 6, 2007
Why use the word "faith"? The word "belief/believe" is sufficient. Leave the former to the religious-minded. Being an atheist is enough of a "cross" for you to bear. Why complicate your life further?
#4 by Thom Hogue, Dec 6, 2007
Atheism is not a belief or a religion rather a refusal to accept unproven or absolutely unbelievable dogma as fact or science. It is a refusal to accept fairy tales as science or as fact. If a god appeared on earth then there would be indisputable evidence. I am an atheist that does not believe that Zeus, Jehovah, Jesus, Allah nor any other form of a god has ever appeared on this or any other inhabited planet in the universe. There is no such entity. Get real people. A private conviction is not absolute proof of anything but the fact that an individual can be absolutely convinced that something has existed or does exist. It is a religion and a belief foremost and definitely is not a science. To question such convictions does not constitute a religion nor a belief. Neither does it constitute a science but rather is a legitimate form of questioning which encourages advancement in human knowledge versus human follies in their beliefs based on non-knowledge.
#5 by Brandon, Dec 6, 2007
Robert, I use the word faith both as an exercise in understanding and because that is what many people say. But, you're correct, belief is just as good. Belief can also be misconstrued, though as I'm sure you well know.
#6 by Ken, Dec 6, 2007
If only there were some way to get people to quit reframing things, or at least stop insisting on using their own personal experience as the ONLY source for understanding new or foreign things. When faced with pagans who "worship" a horned god, they have to relate it to Satan, because that's a horned god from their own lexicon...they can't even accept it may just be symbolic, but feel it has to be a physical entity, because they believe their own deities to be truly existing beyond mere ideas. The idea of just looking at an idea with no preconceptions, and looking for what really can be gleaned is just beyond a good number of people. It wouldn't be all that tragic, except they act on these misunderstandings, and lack of vision with violence, or at least invective speech and writing. As you said, there's nothing wrong with them believing what they wish...we just wish to be left out of it, not crushed under laws defined by it, and left alone.
#7 by Tony DiPonio, Dec 6, 2007
The PROBLEM is that atheists are becoming increasingly hysterical and paranoid, and now that they have a few popular books and websites and advocates, are creating their own little echo chamber where they can nurture this paranoid, us-versus-them mentality. And the more hystrerical and paranoid they become, the more the reassure themselves they are "rational"!

When theists say evolution or global warming is a "religion", they are speaking figuratively, although I know you guys often seem to have difficulty with figurative speech. Anything can be worshipped like a religion, probably nothing more than the communism of Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot... all of them atheists, and all of them killing more people than religion ever has by orders of magnitude.

This phrase got to me, since it seems to be indicative of the mentality of "new atheists":

"...science in particular and atheism in general..."

What!?! Has atheism annexed science for itself? Is science now a subset of the larger "mentality" of atheism? When did this happen? Do you really not think it’s possible for a person of faith to be a scientist? Pure idiocy!

The dictionary definition of "science" doesn’t mention "atheism", and the dictionary definition of "atheism" doesn’t mention "science." But atheists (and atheists alone) have started subtly insisting the two are the same, much in the same manner you accuse theists of wanting to equate science and religion. Talk about projection! :)

"However, we must remember that we’e not dealing with reasonable or sensible people. We\'re dealing with the religious and they will do whatever it takes to force their world view upon you.\"

"I’m sending this warning because I can see the blood in their eye and it scares me."

More paranoid fantasies of a person who\'ll no doubt swear up and down to their "rationality".

As a Christian, I will go on record as saying that atheism is NOT a religion. BUT... by the same token... theism isn’t a religion either! Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu etc. are all types of theism, but theism itself isn’t a religion. So whenever you complain that having references to God in the Pledge of Allegiance, the court oath, on currency etc., is a violation of "the separation of church and state," you are wrong, as they is not advocating the supremacy of any particular religion, merely acknowledging existance of God. But that is the price you must pay for atheism not being a religion, either. :)

Tony
#8 by Bill White, Dec 6, 2007
What puzzles me about this article and this movement (see I didn't call it a religion) of athiesm is that you are clinging to evolution and calling it science like science is the absolute.

Science, very much like religion in one aspect, evolves over time. How many theories have evolved over time?

With science, you base your theories on repeatable fact. Have you repeated evolution? If you have, where is the mini-planet with mini-microscopic organisms that are slowly climbing out of a primordial soup?

I am a Christian and an expert on the subject of synchronicity, but I also have a strong love for science. What I will suggest to you is the enormous amount of data that gets generated all the time that falls under the shroud of radical empiricism. How do you account for the "unexplainable" when it happens so often? You can't. Science and academia in most cases conveniently brushes anything they can't explain under the rug and says there is no proof.

When it comes to global warming, I don't deny that the polar caps are melting, but I'd also like to see you explain how our fossil fuels are causing the same thing to happen on Mars where the polar caps are also melting. Do not the solar activity of the last decade and it may be, not that I'm saying it is, a case that we are experiencing a larger cycle than we have recorded before. Having said that, I'm still completely for reducing our dependence on fossil fuel and implementing sound green practices that help nurture the ecosystem we live in. Even from a religous perspective it makes sense to me that we are the caretakers of the plants and animals, thus the earth while we are here.

I do not expect to save you from your atheistic views, you are a free person and you can choose what you take to be truth as will I. The belief in a deity or not really doesn't change the course of physical life much anyway, beyond the shroud of death we will all find out what is truth. By the same token, I'd expect the same courtesy from my atheists brothers and sisters, that they don't try to "save" me from my radically empirical experiences that would give me every reason to believe that there are ghosts and a deity.

It would be a very brave and extremely intelligent act on the part of science and atheism to instead of attacking creationism as based on non-scientific records, admit also, that evolution has not entirely been proven and quit hiding behind the word theory and admit it is a hypothesis. If, that approach were taken, then you might see the religious element stop fighting back so hard.
#9 by cronis13, Dec 6, 2007
although it is also true that science and inevitabley all science is used militarily can be constrede as evil the tree of knowledge and lucifer being or representing that illuminatorry knowledge taking us out of a child or god like state. however we have to remember that over and over religion kills , we see it time and time again today as well as the 1200 years of holly roman inquisition. But at the end of the day we are the only ones who can save this planet, a people of 1 root race seperated more by petty differences than geography or food , climate or the changes theese have caused upon us !we had better get goodat science because the reality is that the universe does not care if we live or dieand we had better staart to find a better faster way to take fresh water outof the oceans with an increasing population and ever changing climate . please forgive the grammar & punctuation but alas it is inconsequential here comes that asteriod ... how much time have you wasted arguing about religion.. boooooom
#10 by Jay, Dec 6, 2007
Tony, clearly you are very ignorant of the matters at hand and seem to exaggerate certain pieces of information such as:
"Anything can be worshipped like a religion, probably nothing more than the communism of Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot... all of them atheists, and all of them killing more people than religion ever has by orders of magnitude.\"
Clearly, that is not correct. Religion has been the bases of countless wars since the beginning of time and with any common sense you will know that it has killed more people than the likes of communism, it is naive to think otherwise.
Secondly, science is not a division of atheism which only atheists have proper claims to; it merely seems that way for science and religion clash constantly and atheists use these clashes to argue the irrational views of religion; i.e. Christianity as well as Judaism and Islam believe the Earth is only several thousand years old. That is already false, and with that in mind, they wouldn\'t believe in dinosaurs as well, for that predates their idea of existence or Homo Erectus, and Neanderthals and CroMagnons, because according to them, God created us the way we are today, not evolutionary means. But we have their fossils, you cannot disagree they had existed unless you are delusional, whether it was evolution or not, their fossils predate your understood period of existence as the Bible tells. But that is false again. As you can see the clashes in science and religion, which makes it look like its science vs. religion; when it is not the case in general, more as the exception cases of conflicts.
What I don\'t understand is how certain religions and certain people are so intolerant of different ideas. The big example has always been, \"if you are not christian, you are going to hell\" Sounds like something a dictator would declare, how unmerciful. But it is not paranoia when atheists get upset when there are mentions of this country under God, imagine the reverse situation. I know that our country with the majority of citizens who believe in a God, would go nuts, if the statement said, our country under no God, or without God.
Another matter, evolution. Evolution is still theory and although becoming the leading theory in the science community, still THEORY. It is not fact. However, when something is proven as a fact beyond the term theory, it is something that is understood.
#11 by Atheism is definately a religion, Dec 6, 2007
They believe and warship themselves, they are their own gods.
#12 by Jim, Dec 7, 2007
My, what a fertile ground for argument. I disagree with the premise that all Christians have a problem with evolution. The ministers at my church have no problem with it. (Unfortunately, the curriculum at my kids\' school is opposed to evolution, finding abberrations in the fossil record to \"prove\" that God planted all of the fossils at once. The science curriculum is my least favorite part of the school. If the public schools adequately taught math and English and weren\'t affected by gang affiliations, we wouldn\'t be there.) My personal view is that the Bible was recorded and disseminated by men in an agrarian, pre-literate society, and that the stories are true in the same way that the the answers parents give young children are true. Mesons, quarks, antimatter and the other complexities of the Big Bang wouldn\'t have been understood in an oral society without mathematics or any available power source larger than a horse. \"God created the heavens and the earth\" can be true, without being complete. I don\'t have a problem with the 7 days of Genesis, because I don\'t see why God should be constrained to the same concept of day that I am. My understanding is that God is greater than I am. If the abbreviated description of Creation in Genesis is the limit of his methods, I will be disappointed. My understanding is that the Bible is meant to illustrate God\'s expectations of us, rather than provide a manual to His thoughts and methods. The Bible says that man is made in God\'s image, but I don\'t think it ever says in what manner. If He wanted to spend a few billion years building us up from raw chemicals through the processs of evolution, He had the time. I think there are enough examples of ongoing evolution in the changing of populations to environmental pressures (man-made and otherwise) to conclude that evolution is part of the plan.
#13 by Catana, Dec 7, 2007
If you\'re going to define words to suit yourself, you\'re doing exactly what the religious nuts are doing, and instead of supporting a rational position, you\'re undermining it. I refer to your statement: \"I have said and will continue to say that atheists are spiritual in that spiritualism is following a particular defining thought.\" Spirit and spiritualism have many definitions, and atheism isn\'t by any stretch of the imagination included. I\'m a lifelong atheist, and there isn\'t anything in my world of facts and reason that could be called spiritual.
#14 by Cronis13, Dec 7, 2007
Does the sun fail to shine on anyone of a different creed , religion or lack there of I think not,Spiritualism even for the agnostic atheist etc.. is and will always be but not limited to man . any animal and yes we are animals of the primate phylum , animals of higher intellect all be it probably an accidental sideeffect of a larger more effecient brain causing us much grief in arguing over that which is bloody odviosnow ask yporselves how does one produce art work is there not a kind of spirituality through the muses that drives the picasso de arte onward, do not fool yourselves into thinking that every one that produces great pieces of artis god fearing or religios minded only that like electricity which pumps the heart spirituality is present in higher animals and may have been a precursor to society values and yes evolution of the earliest as well as presnt mans drive to survive but oh yes who was that angel who was in charge of science music and art..hmmm maybe he is responsible for all thats hanging in the louvre or bheethoven well we cant have that sort hanging round curing aids writing symphonys and producing rennasaince portraits now can we better to be sterile of all sorcery then hmmmm..wouldnt be prudent as ol ned flanders would say heee!
#15 by Anne Lyken-Garner, Dec 7, 2007
I am with Bill White.

Please remember also that \'religion\' is not exclusive of science. I am a Christian but this does not automatically require me to disregard science as a whole.

\"But, when religion enters the picture it\'s like the reason centers of their brains shut down and the god shouter section takes over,\"(you said).

Are you making a general statement here about a few Christians to represent Christians as a whole? I know hundreds of Christians,(a couple of them physicists) none of them \'god shouters\'.

Surely this is more than slightly exaggerated.
#16 by Ryan™, Dec 7, 2007
Awesome article! I haven't really seen anyone claim athiesm and evolution as a religion, I can understand how thiests (not athiests) claim athiesm and evolution to be religions.

I'll try to think more about it in a few minutes, cuz my dad's blasting the TV 10 feet away, but I agree with you.

Here's a link to some definitions of religion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
#17 by Brandon, Dec 7, 2007
Anne L-G,
Look, I realize that people get all up in arms because an article doesn't take into account their particular group or belief or idea or whatever. If it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't. If you are a Christian that thinks that science is a great thing and you have no intention of supporting a group that would be in favor of declaring science a religion, then obviously, I'm not talking about you.
And to further clarify, I didn't say anywhere that Christians and science are mutually exclusive. Please read the article again. I know, it could sound like that, but I went out of my way to specifically make the point that most of the religious aren't normally nuts.

"If you were to ask them to pray the lights on, they would say, rightly, that it is a ridiculous notion. These are not monsters or animals they are generally decent, caring people who most of the time are not off their rockers. But, when religion enters the picture it's like the reason centers of their brains shut down and the god shouter section takes over."

If you're going to quote me at least please do so in the context of what was said. If you aren't a person whose brain stops working the instant somebody mentions Jesus, then I'm not talking about you.

Also, I'm sending a warning to you as well. If you aren't a person whose brain stops working when religion is mentioned, be afraid. Because, once 'they've' gotten rid of the obvious threats (science, atheists and gays) 'they' will need to 'purify' their religion and lip service ain't gonna cut it anymore.

I hope that helps clarify some things! Thanks for reading and have a great week-end.
#18 by Brandon, Dec 7, 2007
Thanks Ryan!
#19 by Not in the US, Dec 8, 2007
A thought provoking article - a lttle insensitive in places - but two thoughts from me:
(1) Write any article like this and the nest thing is, some idiot jumps on and proves half of it in one go- Thanks Tony!
(2) The whole debate about what should be taught. I must say, from outside the US, the idea of teaching "intellignet design" and other crap makes the US education system seem to be on a par with perhaps Haiti or something from deep inside the Amazon jungles. I've just been reading an article on books that schools in the US have banned. Seriously, only a McDonalds menu will be acceptable in your schools soon
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